vaultofthearchonfandomcom-20200214-history
110566-amp-upgrade-and-ability-tier-unlock-revisions
Page 1, Page 2 Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Wut? This was one of the major crappy design decisions they had in the game at launch. Having an extra 8 tier ability points is OP as hell in PVP and PVE. I'm glad they're making it easier to get them. Nothing like hitting level 50 and still not being a real level 50 for 6+ more months waiting on AMP and ability points. | |} ---- Hey, your mileage may vary. I personally liked the time investment. Reminded me of OG limit points / Dynamis from XI. I think out of all the things that should have been changed this shouldn't have been high on the list... but as they say; The squeaky wheel gets the oil. I naively thought Carbines 'Hardcore' attitude would limit the QQ pandering. I was mistaken. Lets be real Rex; if some one elses extra T8 is making you fail in PvP.... Your enemy isn't the problem. | |} ---- Make sure these go out to people already at cap. There's a poor history of new path rewards ignoring people that are already level 30. Also, any word on the tradeable upgrades getting a spot in the CX? | |} ---- WOTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. hahaha Now I can't take anything you say seriously. So based on what you just said hardcore WoW raiding guilds that burn through content a week after it's released in crappy gear is because they put MORE time in than the scrubs that take 6 months wiping over and over and gearing up. Edit: And yes... At top tier PVP if you're evenly skilled then an extra t8 is gamebreaking... | |} ---- ---- Yup. They put more time into memorizing the fights / more time into min/maxing , more time into prep and consumables , and more time in general. Are there people who will log in and stand in a single spot and do notheing ad infinitum? Sure. But overall, Hardcore ~= time investment. | |} ---- Nah I'm just an Old School MMO player, who came to W* with the promise of a Vanilla WoW / OG MMO redeux... The fact that it continually ruins what OG feel it had is disappointing IMO. Obviously YMMV. | |} ---- ---- ---- I knew it. Spill the beans Nazryn: Which ultra-rare mob in a remote corner of the world has that 100% drop rate? WHICH ONE?! SAY IT. | |} ---- ---- Haha, I know I'm in the minority here, but i really did genuinely like the rarity... It really makes me sad that the Hardcore / time intensive things in game are pretty much gone now besides raiding.... | |} ---- ---- These are for amp/skill points, not raiding. As it's been said over and over and over again, the only thing they said would be "hardcore" is the raiding. | |} ---- And yet their model was pretty Hardcore in many aspects at first.. .before the pandering began Before the Fire Nation attacked. | |} ---- ---- Come on, even back in beta it was announced that this would not be the final word on AMP/Abil rarity. People were surprised/disappointed it took so long to change it. You really have no right to be disappointed it did change... :unsure: See comment above... You didn't have to get all those points. You gambled on the idea that Carbine would snooze even longer on their promise and/or that points would still be insanely rare after the change. No real reason for "compensation" in my opinion... And it's not like the points will just be everywhere immediately. You should still be able to make plat when you get a normal point drop. | |} ---- ---- ---- Yea, as much as I hate the way they did it (nerfing the only true rare carrot left) This should help to act against the anti-concurrency systems they have in place, and help people realize there servers aren't actually dead (except rowsdower) just people don't come out to play after capping. | |} ---- Repeating myself here, but no one forced you to buy all those points. Speaking as someone who spent all his elder gems on them too, by the way. No one forced me, it was a risk I took KNOWING that Carbine intended to change the system. No way I'd ask for a refund. | |} ---- ---- Right or not, I am disappointed. Obviously that's just my opinion, and this probably will help with my major complaint (the deincentivization of concurrency). So I'm not ignoring that a lot of good will probably come from this. But regardless of how long (or not) this was planned... I preferred them rare. I like to earn my rewards / progression; not get welfare points. | |} ---- They're HARDCORE!!! | |} ---- This is something that was promised for drop 1, and people have been asking for an update about it since then. All of the sources are basically the pinnacle of each content type (except for raiding, curious it got snubbed, you'd think ohmna would be a good place to put at least one single use drop), so I don't understand where this hardcore complaint is coming from. And even then, you will need elder gems/lucky drops to complete your set, since obtaining all of the single use ones will leave you three short for each. | |} ---- Their model was bugged and flawed, and they had said plenty of times it would change. Lets not forget, there are always positive and negatives. They definitely didn't nerf obtaining epic items pre-raid, they actually made those signfiicantly harder to obtain. I don't see anyone praising them for making that more "hardcore", but people sure spoke up to say how much they hated that it was so hard to get pre-raid epics from Adventures. Personally, I was not for these changes. I liked them being a rare commodity. | |} ---- Takes what was a several month progression and makes it a few weeks of effort / spending. The good thing is this will boost player concurrency (the REAL reason servers feel dead). I don't like losing the long term carrot though, regardless of the previous plans of Carbine. Obviously YMMV | |} ---- I praised them for taking out the insta-purps for Golds..... And I'm not forgetting... | |} ---- ---- Well I'd say you can just switch your longterm carrot goals to actually fun things now. Like buying hundreds of plats worth of mount/board flair instead of a few points. Didn't you mention you prefer cool aesthetics to cool mechanics? :D | |} ---- Nazryn, just stop posting lol Read as: I'd rather play a dead game where people are so discouraged from lack of progress they quit, but I have a stranglehold on the market and have tons of plat, so I'm happy. And I'd love to see vids of you getting all 4 gold medals in less than 24 hours from now. Or go dump a bucket of ice on your head. You've been challenged. Because anyone that thinks gold medals are charity is crazy. And 32k rep, for that matter, takes a lot of work. This is work that previously only resulted in some plat and the chance that something good would drop - too low of a chance to keep people playing. The vast majority won't be able to get gold medals for quite some time, if ever. So that stills leaves a bunch as long term carrots / need to purchase. | |} ---- I already own all the cool flair :( | |} ---- OK, DYE JOBS THEN! Be sparkly white/grimdark black before those costs get nerfed too. :P Also I'm sure more expensive cool items will pop up in the future. | |} ---- Bragging rights? Accomplishment? Plus the gold table. You are guaranteed more rolls to the loot table, but not their final quality. In FFXI you weren't even guaranteed your drops after your 3+ hour Kirin run with 36 + players... which took 2 weeks of farming to even initiate. Yea that's a 'back in my day' kind of statement, but that's why at least a good portion of us came to W*. For the OG vanilla feel. I capped Rep before I even finished levelling. I know a lot of people skip quests while moving up the levels, but it isn't difficult to do while you are pre- endgame. Yea if you leave your rep until Endgame, you're going to have a bad time... but why rush? | |} ---- Eh, I'm not holding my breath. W* is quickly turning into Welfare land.... It will be good for the kids playing, the old timers who wanted that OG feel will either deal with being coddled or leave. There aren't too many of us to begin with it seems, so the Game will benefit in the end... Shame the philosophy and vision will go out the door with us though. | |} ---- 32k daily zone rep, mate. Which is a lot of grind, especially once alts enter the picture. Depends on the vendor rate... If you can get like 2 weeks of EG cap per point, that's quite the compensation in my book. | |} ---- Being able to vendor them for elder gems isn't really much in the way of compensation. It substitutes mindless grinding for actual in game activities. I think the only negative is that it will reveal the weakness of the elder gem vendor sooner, because aside from the unlocks there isn't a ton of interesting things to buy unless you are raiding. Its impressive that you completed the month long rep grind in level 50 daily zones before you hit level 50. Both that you got to the zone, and you didn't hit level 50 for a month. | |} ---- Standard half EG sell back would suffice I think, so its like you sold back the one you purchased. | |} ---- ---- Uh, when did faction rep become Daily zone only? Every quest I did for the Dominion in the story earned Dominion rep, as did vet Adventures.. | |} ---- ---- ---- The daily zones each have their own rep, completely independent of faction rep, that you will need to max out, 32k rep at about 1k rep per day, to get these unlocks from them. | |} ---- They are End Game reputations. Not generic Dominion ones. Crimson Badlands, Northern Wastes, and Blighthaven. | |} ---- ---- ---- No no, I was talking about Dominion rep. Looks like I misread the original post I was responding too as the 32k rep for attunement. My bad | |} ---- Hm, would be a pretty big EG boost then. Mind you, I'm not against this... but I don't think we're owed it for wanting our points ASAP despite changes being promised already. Leave it to forumites to package QQ even into appreciative posts... | |} ---- Ignorance finally revealed ;) | |} ---- ---- +1 | |} ---- ---- You are so good at reading, where I totally pointed out my own mistake to make it clear... You should be a professional reader, and then maybe you can give up being a professional cupcake ;) | |} ---- ---- ---- What was "hardcore" about maxing EG every week? You kids today. I remember when hardcore was running back to a dungeon, naked, to retrieve your corpse and praying you could find a cleric to get your exp back because you de-leveled. | |} ---- ---- ---- Actually farming for the drops.... And no, I remember when 'Hardcore' ment there was no running back to your corpse, It meant making a new character because yours just died. | |} ---- I imagine it will be added to the Path Item vendor as a 1 time purchase. | |} ---- Oh by the way I just had a look at the EG vendor. It has ground mount flair worth over 3k EG. You can still be that aesthetically exclusive cupcake you're dreaming about! | |} ---- Because this is a fix on the order of the D3 dev fixing 2h weapons by across the board dps boost. Had they taken months for an elegant solution, they would get all the praise. This is just them taking ideas that where posted on the forums months ago. for that effort they get 1/3 of a golf clap. | |} ---- ---- Special type of character. Not full time. But you win man, you are too cool for pre-school. :) The rest of us just lost our hardcore cards to you. | |} ---- Jokes out to pasture now Tenner. Just because I'm dissapointed in this move doesn't mean anyone else who isn't already should be. And all the aesthetics in the world wouldn't make up for the death of extended progression this caused. Sure they'll up the level cap eventually and trivialize current content and add more progression in .. but I doubt sincerely it will be much different from the short, bursty progression we've got now. Just my opinion. Most folks seem to like spending a few days capping level and calling that grindy now anyway so w/e | |} ---- "Just" actually listening to player feedback and carefully evaluating it before implementing (Protip: tons of player feedback posted here is objectively garbage. Not even exempting myself from this. I don't claim I've thought everything I suggest through perfectly). Right. Sorry but you're looking incredibly vindicative and petty to me right now. Going to lay this argument to rest before it derails the thread into a flamewar. It will probably happen anyway, but I don't want to be responsible for it. I... I wasn't joking. Are you really implying anyone would have bought that flair if they could get AMP points instead? | |} ---- I don't even play W* hardcore... I used to play XI and EQ hardcore, but that's irrelevant. You don't have to be a hardcore player to appreciate hardcore content. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Uh, Yes? I spent all my EP elder gems on boards and flair..... | |} ---- Corona, bro, | |} ---- It's about time. | |} ---- And you would have bought even the ones for thousands of EG instead of AMPs? You're weird, but okay... :ph34r: | |} ---- Grinding out your EG cap was about the least interesting thing you could do. Now you can do almost anything and it will both be more interesting than grinding out EGs and work doubly towards getting you those points. Layered content was another one of the buzzwords they liked to throw around alongside hardcore. | |} ---- Seen a few people interpret this different ways. Initially I thought each dungeon dropped it's own unique point (whether Amp or Ability), totalling 2 AMP and 2 Ability points from dungeons. I've heard some people thinking that the dungeon pairs drop the same one time AMP or Ability point, meaning we could only get 1 Amp and 1 Ability point total for dungeons. | |} ---- Oh interesting. I wasn't aware that going AFK in Swordmaiden or Grimvault was considered "Hardcore." Or win trading. Or using PvP bots. Or price fixing on the CE to screw over raiding guilds. Definitely sounds hardcore. Then please try out WildStar's hardcore content... if you can. | |} ---- Yes, I prefer to go with drops even though they were rare They drop too; just at 0.02% You don't NEED to spend EG's on them. You could before; get the drops in PvP bags, PvE bags, and open world / Dungeon drops (@ 0.02%) Were you addressing some one here? Because as far as I am aware no one suggested any of those activities were 'Hardcore' I presume like most you mean Raids when you say 'Hardcore', and ignore all other content that could reasonably be considered Hardcore? | |} ---- I've been reading it like the latter group, but I can see how you'd come to the former's conclusion. Clarification from a dev would be appreciated. | |} ---- ---- If you have already completed the Path Level, you will be able to purchase them from the Path Hoard-o-Tron vendors in the main cities. | |} ---- Thanks for the clarification, forgot that vendor even existed. On another note can we expect this patch and some of the balance changes from the upcoming drop to not be delayed along with the new content? I am really hoping they're separated so we don't have to wait extended amounts of time for bug fixes and balancing for things already live. | |} ---- ---- Oh yeah, I forgot about that vendor. Thanks for the reply and also thank you in general for the changes! | |} ---- ---- Hello, Hardcore player here and ex member of The best Exile guild and current member of the best guild I have put in more time and effort into this game than 99% of the population, and I haven't came across a single ability or amp point besides stuff from the Elder Gem Vendor. This is a great change, and all the changes coming into the game in the future are looking really promising to bring a lot of people back. | |} ---- Cool story, I'm so glad you read this thread and not just a single post out of context so that you clearly read me post that exact same thing earlier: | |} ---- Trade-able AMP Power Upgrades and Ability Tier Unlock Points will be added to the CX in the next big update. Also, yeah, path capped characters will be able to find these items on the path vendor as well. Edited August 25, 2014 by 7ofswords | |} ---- Each dungeon drops a unique item. Obtaining a Gold Medal on Veteran tier Stormtalon's Lair will provide a Stormtalon AMP Power Upgrade, for example. A character can only activate the the Stormtalon AMP Power Upgrade once. Once the character has activated that AMP Power Upgrade they cannot roll on that drop again. | |} ---- ---- ---- These changes are great! Thank you so much! | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- look, i all for the change its good progress. the issue is how long it took them to gin up this C- plan to fix the problem. This far out from the fist time the acknowledged the problem, they could have implemented these changes or at least made this announcement before the game started bleeding suds from every orifice. ps listening to the customers is basic, filtering the signal from the noise is commendable, being agile is reputable. guess which stage carbine is only now starting to grasp. | |} ---- ---- ---- Oh no you di'int! | |} ---- ---- To be fair I also; | |} ---- ---- They probably will be. That's the going definition of "hardcore" No one is dumb enough to spend 100p on a strain hoverboard. It's just more content wasted, time and effort etc. | |} ---- ---- ---- >< damn prestige is the pvp money. i cant wait to suck out loud for my fast loses | |} ---- I bought it...and the 50p front/side/back addons flairs for it :-I So yes, there is always someone dumb enough to buy! | |} ---- ---- ---- They aren't. We figure the difficult part is obtaining the rep. | |} ---- ---- Would also like to know this | |} ---- Well, now I'm truly convinced this is a fantastic improvement for the better. | |} ---- Yes. Additionally in the near future I'll be making another post as well describing some buffs to the amount of loot that group/raid creatures will be dropping. | |} ---- Yup want to know what happen when we already reach lvl 30 for our path when this drops. | |} ---- Nope, They upped the drop rates again. No, I'm surprised they are rehashing exactly the same BS responses to it. Is at least a little creativity too much to ask for? | |} ---- TY! :wub: | |} ---- ---- LAWL. People don't read entire threads! Silly. | |} ---- Then just throw them away or sell them and only buy them from the vendor. Again, you can still do it the old way. | |} ---- This is a fundamental shift to the items. The beautiful thing about the old system was the rarity (obviously IMO). The points were one of the few (if not only) long term carrots for players to look forward to several months out. That nugget of time sunk progression is now lost. Like I have said in this thread ad nauseam; This is a good thing for the overall game; it will keep more folks playing in game for longer periods; and thus combat some of the player concurrency problems making servers appear dead. But a minority of players including myself are sad to lose our only real time intensive progression. The amp/ability points had a real OG MMO feel (like Vanilla WoW/ EQ / XI). Some of us really liked that. Obviously YMMV. | |} ---- ---- ---- | |} ---- Well the 'some' will just have to put up with it for the rest of us. | |} ---- ---- Nonsense, that's why they post on Twitter and Reddit more often then here :) | |} ---- ---- I couldn't agree more.... | |} ---- ---- you can only use each new one once. But the point itself is a permanent addition. That way you can't just buy 10 from the PvP vendor. or get them all from dungeons. | |} ---- ---- ...I'm sorry, I had to. | |} ---- LOL do you really not trust that people can read my actual post on their own? (granted I'm not sure ANYONE around here knows how to read comprehensively). This will almost assuredly help the concurrency, so not terribly sure why you bolded that; and I've made it very clear that this is a good change; even though myself and a minority of others don't like it. Heck I even highlighted that in response to another poster playing highlight police on my posts: Nazryn, on 25 Aug 2014 - 10:03 PM, said: | |} ---- ---- LoL, I'm not; just find a lot of the posts in here pretty mind numbingly silly. If your intent was a joke, it's a tad ambiguous.. but well played none the less. | |} ---- ---- ---- Hardcore is platinum I in LoL playing like 2-3 hours a day. There are 0 hardcore WoW, FFXI, or Wildstar players. If you think there are, believe me you are not hardcore. EZ games built around time sinks are the farthest thing from hardcore. They are more like UnemployedCore. | |} ---- Vanilla WoW had some pretty hardcore content... and all of FFXI pre- 75-90 level increase and cas-nerfs was incredibly hardcore; and frankly GA and DS are also pretty damn hardcore. I'm going to leave it there, because this is obviously a troll post and it seems like you've been fed enough Pig :) | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- This is why you have problems with people staying in the game..... Grinding for rep is not difficult, nor is dailies or the repeat of pvp after pvp just to grind prastige. Making something like a hoverboard cost 100 plat or 80 plat for a mount is not difficult. Your idea of difficult, is simple time gates machanics that have zero to do with difficult... the only one that might be considered difficult is the gold on dungeons, but that is also not he point. Me and many others do not even want to consider rolling alts... why... cause of the simple endless grind just to get basic stuff that should be in the game already. Time gating crafting, time gate elder gems, time game amps and abilities, time gate rep... and you wonder why your server are getting empty... the only other game with this machanics are F2P... chines/japanese grind fests and i have even progressed faster ona few of them than. Guild died, cause people just suck and could not finish the attunements (not that difficult) players wanted to re-roll but could not go through the grind again (and yes it is a huge grind and not a fun one, but bland, repetative and f useless time waste) and left cause they do content repeatedly and no reward... one guy wanted a chest from tempist... did it gold over 60 times and 1 purple drop... you said you wanted rare... but this is just beyond stupid drop rates..... (and no it was not the chest) your game was great with bugs.... then okay with more bugs.... then you tried fixing a few things, and you turned 90% of what you touched to shit.... it's mind boggeling how you can take something that actually draws people in and *cupcake* on it. | |} ---- *pretends there is a like button and clicks where it should be* Cool potatoes! | |} ---- ---- ---- | |} ---- Impossible to take a post like this seriously. :rolleyes: | |} ---- ---- ---- I agree world bosses need something... cool. But these changes are making points pretty easy to get (compared to before) already. Maybe make action set expanders drop from world bosses? Of course chance would still need to be very small. But big enough for people to do them! | |} ---- Welcome to Carbine, a company lost in time. | |} ---- ---- Can we make some of those ability/amp unlock point from path/reputation trade-able? Because the game is already launched 3 months and many early players have capped out the ability/amp points, or at least can't make full use of these benefits in this change. The extra non trade-able points which can't be used in anyway are simply making them feel bad to pay so much gold/elder gem, especially for the people who purchased recently. | |} ---- ---- ---- No. Current content is already tuned to be beaten with the minimum of points. Even higher cap than 55 would make things too easy. | |} ---- Will the Boombox mounts be added to AH as well? I feel bad every time I spam /trade trying to sell it. | |} ---- No. It was really obviously that there was no need to change anything for current system. The ability/amp points are rare, yes, but if you really want them there are ways to get them fast. And I know quite a few of people with max ability points from elder gem and world drop/pvp drops already. Every time Carbine make a rarity change, they mess players up big time, people either didn't benefit from the higher drop rate before the change or after the change. Cause the market is adjusting for players' expectation. Last time they make the rare AMP not rare anymore. So people who just bought trigger fingers with 20 plats get screwed. Further back, they changed the gold medal reward from adventures, then the people who didn't make it to spam adventures to get their desired item get screwed. The upcoming change simply made the ability/amp points from elder gem worthless. Why would I spend my elder gem which has a cap comes with time on ability/amp while they can be easily get by naturally gameplay to get reputation and path xp, or buy with gold which has no cap with time? So really, devs, if you are listening, either make compensation for those people who can't benefit from your rarity change, or stop making rarity changes at all. Cause without compensation you are going to *cupcake* off a portion of players for no good reason either way. moderator edit: language Edited August 26, 2014 by Chillia | |} ---- ---- If i had to bet, i'd say the vast majority of players who have maxed out or are nearly maxed out on these extra points have done so by exploiting systems in the game to gain plat and then spamming "WTB +AMP/Ability 40Plat". I don't think anyone should care what these guys think. Besides, didn't Carbine announce that changes would be made to the rarity of the items well before anyone got close to maxing out on them? (Same for Trigger Fingers, since you bring that up). Without compensation, they might "*cupcake off" a tiny minority of players for a very good reason. | |} ---- ---- Nah. Read the dev posts. It's not that hard: You can just click the "Next post" button and it will directly take you there, skipping all the normal posters' stuff. And yet Carbine promised it would be changed ages ago. People chose to spend their platinum/EG on the points anyway. No reason for compensation. Take some responsibility for your choices please. | |} ---- Lmao How is it carbines fault if you bought something that is overpriced? That's on YOU for being impatient if you spent plat. And if carbine changed rarity so what.? you already got your goods paying a premium price to get it early.. I'm sure if you can make that money before, you can do it again. Unless you exchanged real money to make in game money.. | |} ---- Your calculations are wrong. You will need to get 2 AMP / 2 Ability points randomly (PVP / PvE / CX / Elder Gems) if you get everything. | |} ---- ---- I know this is off topic, but seeing this line in the dev tracker made me shake my head. Why isn't that the same thought for dyes? The hard part is getting the rare ones, but we're charged ridiculous amounts to use it. /offtopicjerkfacerant | |} ---- ---- They've already stated, pointblank, that they have no intention of making the raids easier. They figure that getting new gear, new tier upgrades, and new AMP upgrades will nerf the content more naturally, but they have absolutely zero intent to ease up on anything as far as game difficulty goes. So making the amp, tier, etc easier to get, if you count that as a raid nerf, is as close as it gets. I don't, it's just easing back on drop rates. | |} ---- Yup we already have people crying about having to save up for ability sets.... While I 100% get what Carbine is trying to do with the extra amp/ability changes, this does not fair well for those of us who came for the OG / hardcore feel. If Carbine is just going to give sh!t to us on a silver platter like World of Whiners does why should we keep playing? The Beauty of W* was the skill and effort you actually had to put in. The combat system is great because whether folks recognise it or not it requires skill; and the drop systems and gear systems were great because they promoted a more varied gearing experience (just like some OG MMO's) In the short term this will probably boost play time and get folks back in the game running content. In the long run, if Carbine keeps this up it will probably have a negative impact on the player base... I always respect your opinions Vic, but this is quite a bit more than easing droprates. This is increasing drop rates by orders of magnitude; then adding in all new ways to get these items from content one would already run for other reasons... I certainly don't deny that this could help keep players in game for longer and might even help improve some of the concurency issues... but if they nerf things like this now, whats next? Yes that's a slippery slope argument on my part... but really, what's next? We now no longer have long term (months scale) progression carrots (the Amp/ Ability points were the only ones). | |} ---- ---- Build the fort at the headwater, not in the marsh, Naz. :) | |} ---- ---- So the only way to have a significant amount of plat in this game is by exploiting? Pshaw. Its a little bit disgusting that people actually liked your post. Yeah, I was assuming one AMP and one Ability point total from dungeons. The devs have clarified that point, but I don't see much need to go back and edit my previous posts. | |} ---- Selling CREDD to get points isn't hardcore. Capping ELDER GEMS in a day isn't hardcore. Then repeating this for 3 weeks isn't either. You still have to put the same effort in. The only people that are upset are those that paid real money to get things EASILY. Or Boosters that exploited or gold buyers w.e. Being time gated isn't hardcore, in fact it's actually there to help CASUAL players so that everyone progresses at the same pace. Just like dailies. This is a fine change, and like i said the only people that dislike it are those that spent real money to get ahead of everyone else. | |} ---- I said "If i had to bet...the vast majority" You strawmanned it to "the only way" Derp? | |} ---- ---- I apologize. You didn't accuse everyone that was rich of exploiting without supporting evidence, just the vast majority. That makes it so much better. | |} ---- You could just assume you're not part of the accusation then and stop being offended on behalf of others... :rolleyes: | |} ---- Believe it or not; these items drop in the open world @ 0.02% and from PvP and PvE bags at 0.04%. They are rare, but not prohibitively so. Yes some folks used the architect exploit to cap them; but some folks also capped through drops and buying dropped ones. For some one who farms extensively for a week, you can find an average of up to 4 a week if you really know where to farm and you seriously go at it hardcore. For less hardcore farmers you can still find an average of 1 a week if you spend a serious amount of time farming. toss in a few purchased through gems and you've hit cap in 2 months. Not even close. Pre-these changes you had to hunt drops or spend EG's. Many chose to hunt drops, and it was a rewarding experience. I can tell you where you'll get the most consistent drops for your time spent (Kel Voreth), and I can tell you how rewarding it is to get a rare item after putting in ACTUAL time to hunt them. Now you get them for activities that players would do regardless for other reasons; it makes the Amp/Ability points not a carrot; but an incidental given. While I acknowledge the benefit these changes could have for player concurency (which was my biggest criticism of Carbine); I am upset about the change. I have never purchased Credd or currency in game using real money / nor have I used exploits. And I have a single extra amp point applied to my main. (though I've now seen 5 drop). But I earned that point; 5 hours a day in Kel for a week of farming. Hardcore by definition is the group of players who are most active and most devoted to a game; Hardcore players will necessarily progress faster than casual players because of the difference in time investment. The only real, immutable difference between a casual player and a hardcore player is the time they invest in the game. I get the sentiment Vic; but I have to point out that some of the most successful forts / cities were built in the marsh, at the mouth; (e.g. New Orleans). | |} ---- ---- Oh, it's a successful city, but not a fort. You don't build a fort in the marsh. Sun Tzu would cry. You build a port and get your stuff the Hell out of there as fast as you can. In this case, you're definitely going to lose a fight trying to say these things should remain as they are since they're hated by a majority of the player base and not liked by most of the rest. You don't want to spend your credit there. Game difficulty, especially raid difficulty, has few detractors and a lot of supporters. Slipper slopes don't work as rhetorical arguments for that reason; you're better off defining the boundaries of the untouchable. I just can't say the current droprates of AMP upgrades and ability tiers are a place you should make a stand. I certainly wouldn't say they should remain as they are even though I have no real opinion on the matter myself. It's one of those things that was miscalculated at launch, and something that plenty of players left over. They need more carrots to string people along, even if they're on longer strings. This is just going to hopefully keep people grinding away. | |} ---- ---- Or people can stop making baseless insinuations filled with enough weasel words that no one calls them out on it. Not only here, but other places in the forum also. Here is just where I got sick of reading them. Edited August 26, 2014 by dinwitt | |} ---- ---- Fair enough, it just didn't seem like a sufficiently egregious example of blanket insinuations. A lot of rich folks did use questionable means. And those who didn't usually put in enough work for their platinum to "feel" its value in a way that wouldn't make them spam "PAYING 70P PER POINT, BUYING ALL POINTS" every 5min in trade chat. | |} ---- We'll have something to say about this soon, but for now the cat stays in the bag. | |} ---- Fort Pike was the fort @ New Orleans. Sun Tzu might have cried; but then again so did the Brits when they tried to take it from the Spanish. I get your point; but If those of us who actually enjoyed having the long term progression don't voice our opinions, Carbine will continue to nerf content in line with what the FOTM whining is about. No one here thinks they are going to convince Carbine to stop this change that is already almost out of the pipe; but when it comes to things like Ability sets that are still a time sink to obtain, maybe they will consider leaving them as is. That said there are already posts demanding those be given out on a silver platter as well.... Maybe it's a losing battle, but I'm not going to let other fulfilling collections / character additions get nerfed with out at least pointing out that some of us enjoy having to work for our goodies, and came to W* for that nostalgic feel. That's just plain false. While it is true some folks used the Architect exploit to cap these; there are at least a few people who have legitimatly capped their amp/ ability points. The drop rates on these items is ~0.02 in the open world / ~0.04 in bags. Toss in a couple bought off the EG vendor and it's quite possible to cap them in just over 2 months if you are a hardcore farmer and get lucky / buy a few from other players. Yea, changing these up certainly should do wonders for concurrency.... but I fear it may be a more temporary fix than we'd like. None the less, can't look a gift horse in the mouth eh? | |} ---- I already admitted to the ignorance of my claim before i said it. See: "If i had to bet." To call me out for a lack of supporting evidence is redundant and won't save any face for you. | |} ---- I should point out that Fort Pike was always abandoned before being attacked because of its location. Nobody ever fired a cannon shot at Fort Pike, it was essentially a gun emplacement to protect from naval attacks. Contrast that to some of the really indefensible places. Not really relevant to the discussion, I get your point, but historical fun nonetheless! :D Either way, they severely overestimated how many of these would drop at their droprates (and per server). While, in a vacuum of all highpop servers with everyone playing endgame constantly this might work, it's a complete overshot for what the game is in practice. I don't think the devs miscalculated the drop rate, they miscalculated the player's level of brain fortitude. Hard games like this, with the glorious insanity that comes with it, isn't something most people want to deal with 8 hours a day 6 days a week the way you can in WoW (which is a lot less taxing on concentration). Given that people are engaged less with the brutality of raiding and vet dungeons than they though, Carbine needs to essentially infill content between (to basically give us something hard, but not quite so time consuming) and increase the rates things are dropping. Obviously, they've got the logs. They can see who has how many of what across the board. We can assume they made this decision after seeing how many people were actually getting their upgrades. If it's lower than they thought it would be, they increase the drop rate. It makes sense. Look, if they come to the well defended gates of Hard Content's Keep, I'm right there. But I don't fight anyone on these forums for ideology, I think good ideas are good ideas, bad ideas are bad ideas, and they should stand on their own. I just honestly don't think this, standing alone, is a bad idea. Nerfing content? Yeah, bad idea. But increasing amp upgrade and ability tier droprates to adjust for practical gameplay practices? That's just a good idea on its own, IMO. | |} ---- Its not like these drops were the only long term progression, just the only one that didn't need a group. You don't shift the burden of proof with weasel words, you just make yourself look silly. If your premise is completely baseless, then why should anyone bother with your conclusion? Instead of coming in here with weasel words and ill defined terms to support disparaging accusations you could bring an actual argument. | |} ---- Your conclusion about the world drop rate is not correct. You're incorrectly extrapolating from Jabbithole data. What you're doing is the equivalent of asking a lottery jackpot winner how many tickets he bought before winning ("About 100.") and then using that data to say that the likelihood of winning a jackpot is 1/100. Jabbithole has the same problem. Example: Suppose a super rare item exists with a 1/100,000 drop rate. 200 different mobs can drop it (Mobs 1-200). Jabbithole players go out and kill 1,000 of each mob. They get two drops (a reasonable expectation). One off of Mob 34, one off of Mob 151. What does jabbithole report when you search for the item? It looks at the data it has and reports that this item has a drop rate of 1/1,000 off of Mob 34, and 1/1,000 off of Mob 151. The combination of only looking at successes (mob types that have dropped one), and the extremely low sample size (only a single drop), greatly distorts the drop rate. That's not jabbithole's fault, it can only work with the information it has. But people need to understand the limitations of jabbithole data and shouldn't point to that and use that drop rate as gospel. Here's the drop rate for Amp points: http://www.jabbithole.com/items/amp-power-upgrade-46542-2ndejb As you can see, the Jabbithole data is flawed in precisely this way. The Zeta Punisher and Dominion Advance Scout are the equivalent of Mob 34 and 151 in my example. At best, it might have a drop rate of something close to 0.02% off of the dungeon trash (even that is suspect due to the still low sample size). But needless to say that a 0.02% off of dungeon trash is still extremely rare. If you get 50 kills per run, do 10 runs a day, 5 days a week, you'd win the drop once every 10 weeks. Not sure how you're capping out in two months like that. | |} ---- ----